Moore on Proper Medical Training
The following conversation took place on MSNBC's Hardball last night. The full transcript is available here. The host of the show is Chris Matthews. He was speaking to Roy Moore, the Alabama judge who was forced to remove a monument of the Ten Commandments from the rotunda of his courthouse.
MATTHEWS: You go back to Genesis.
MATTHEWS: Do you think Genesis should be part of our public life? Should we believe in it as written?
MOORE: I think Genesis was the basis upon which life, liberty, and property were put in the Fifth and 14th Amendments to the United States Constitution. For example, life was defined out of Genesis as the immediate gift of God, a right inherent nature in every individual, and it begins in contemplation of law as soon as the infant stirs in its mother‘s womb. There were similar definitions for liberty and...
MATTHEWS: But when we create public schools that have to teach science...
MATTHEWS: Usually by high school level, teach biology, for example.
MATTHEWS: How do you teach Genesis as true biology, true science?
MOORE: I don‘t think you teach Genesis as the science. You teach the creationism.
MATTHEWS: Well, creationism. Well, isn‘t that—is that a scientific belief?
MOORE: That is a scientific belief in many opinions, yes.
MATTHEWS: Not opinions, but is it scientific belief? In other words, if you send someone to medical school, would you want them to study creationism as part of their biology testing and education?
MOORE: I would. I sure would.
MATTHEWS: You would want them to study creationism?
MOORE: Sure. Sure.
MATTHEWS: What value would that have in their training?
MOORE: Because there‘s no—there‘s no scientific evidence of evolution. Evolution is a theory and has been recognized so by many. You have always heard of the missing link, haven‘t you?
MOORE: It is still missing. In other words, they can‘t explain how male and female came and every species from one atom or one amoeba.
MATTHEWS: So, when you study all the kingdoms and you study all those things in schools.
MATTHEWS: You had to study it, too, like I did, right?
MATTHEWS: You have Homo sapiens. Do you believe in those distinctions, man and there‘s certainly—there‘s the primates.
MOORE: ... you‘re asking my personal belief...
MATTHEWS: No, I‘m asking what your scientific belief is, what we should teach our doctors.
MOORE: My scientific belief is that we were created. And it is clearly evident in the system of the universe.
MATTHEWS: In the days of creation.
MOORE: That‘s my personal belief, yes.
MATTHEWS: No, but, see, you can‘t have that—you can‘t have that institutionalized belief in terms of a society. You can‘t hold to the fact that we were created in seven days if there was no such thing as seven days until there was a sun and there was an Earth. That‘s what a day is.
MOORE: There are different beliefs.
MATTHEWS: The relationships—no, no.
MATTHEWS: The definition of a day is the relation between the Earth and the sun.
MOORE: Yes, sure.
MATTHEWS: Before God—God couldn‘t have operated under a calendar of days before he created the sun.
MOORE: Sure. I don‘t...
MATTHEWS: How can he do that? It doesn‘t make any logical sense.
MOORE: Well, my personal belief is literal, that there were seven days. But...
MATTHEWS: You‘re holding to a reverence for belief. I understand completely.
MATTHEWS: Religion is about belief.
MATTHEWS: But is it something you can teach in terms of science in school?
MOORE: I think creationism is something you can teach in terms of science in school. Yes, I do.
MATTHEWS: Well, how can you teach that it is scientifically possible to have days before there‘s a sun?
MOORE: Well, when you‘re talking about creationism, how can you teach that there wasn‘t? How can you teach the negative?
MATTHEWS: No, I‘m just saying...
MATTHEWS: I‘m just talking about logic. I‘m just...
MATTHEWS: This is obviously very sensitive to many people.
MATTHEWS: I agree that two out of five Americans believe in the days of creation as written in Genesis verbatim. I accept that.
MOORE: I think...
MATTHEWS: But I‘m talking about public schools and how you organize, how you teach kids to be doctors, how you train them to think logically for law and other practices. Can you do that in the context of a complete fundamentalist religious commitment? Can you do that? Or do you have to separate?
MOORE: No, I don‘t think you separate God from the state, the God that created man from the state.
MOORE: That‘s not separation of church and state.
And I think, in a state nation which was begun on the premise that we hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, it absolutely makes no sense for the government to mandate that there is no creation. The very basis of the Declaration was that God give us rights and government was to secure those rights. If you teach there is no God, there‘s no creation...